主持人：两分钟，奥巴马议员。
OBAMA: Well, first of all, I think that we are safer in some ways. Obviously, we've poured billions of dollars into airport security. We have done some work in terms of securing potential targets, but we still have a long way to go.
奥巴马：好的，首先，我认为我们在某些方面更安全了。显然，我们在机场的安全方面灌注了数十亿的美元。在保护潜在的（恐怖分子袭击）目标上，我们做了一些工作，但我们还有很长的路要走。
（注：同样是说“很长的路要走”。奥巴马基本不满意现状。而麦凯恩却基本满意现状。其实相差很大。）
（注：美国机场的安检比中国严格得多。对于可疑的乘客，通常都是针对外国游客，会要求解下腰带，脱下鞋子，工作人员用各种仪器检查你的鞋子和随身行李。我就这么经历过一次，感觉非常的难受。这些仪器中，我还看见了一位工作人员用一种试纸来检测我那臭哄哄的鞋子。也许是怕我的鞋子里内含炸药吧。毕竟很小的炸弹就能产生相当大的破坏力。
在做检查时，必须在指定位置坐好。该位置类似犯人的座椅。工作人员全部都佩了枪。）
We've got to make sure that we're hardening our chemical sites. We haven't done enough in terms of transit; we haven't done enough in terms of ports.
我们必须得确保我们的化学工厂经得起考验。我们没有在运输（的安全）上做够；我们没有在港口（的安全）上做够。
And the biggest threat that we face right now is not a nuclear missile coming over the skies. It's in a suitcase.
而现在我们最大的威胁不是一颗来自天空的核弹。而是（藏在）手提箱（里的核弹）。
This is why the issue of nuclear proliferation is so important. It is the -- the biggest threat to the United States is a terrorist getting their hands on nuclear weapons.
这就是为什么防止核扩散是如此的重要。它是——对美国最大的威胁是一个恐怖分子，手里拥有核武器。
And we -- we are spending billions of dollars on missile defense. And I actually believe that we need missile defense, because of Iran and North Korea and the potential for them to obtain or to launch nuclear weapons, but I also believe that, when we are only spending a few hundred million dollars on nuclear proliferation, then we're making a mistake.
而我们——我们在为防御导弹花费数十亿的钱。事实上，我相信我们需要导弹防御，因为伊朗和朝鲜，他们有潜在的可能去获取或者发射核武器。但我同样相信，当我们只在防止核不扩散上面花费几百万美元时，我们正在犯错误。
The other thing that we have to focus on, though, is Al Qaida. They are now operating in 60 countries. We can't simply be focused on Iraq. We have to go to the root cause, and that is in Afghanistan and Pakistan. That's going to be critical. We are going to need more cooperation with our allies.
另一件事我们得关注的，就是基地组织。他们现在在60个国家活动。我们不能简单注意在伊拉克上。我们得找到根源，而那就是阿富汗和巴基斯坦。那将是至关紧要的。我们将需要来自我们的盟友更多的合作。
And one last point I want to make. It is important for us to understand that the way we are perceived in the world is going to make a difference, in terms of our capacity to get cooperation and root out terrorism.
而最后一点我想指出的是这个。对于我们来说，非常重要的是要理解，世界将感受到我们做事的方式发生改变，即在获得合作和挖出恐怖组织的根的这个能力方面。
And one of the things that I intend to do as president is to restore America's standing in the world. We are less respected now than we were eight years ago or even four years ago.
如果我是美国总统，我想做的一件事情是恢复美国在世界上的地位。我们现在比起8年前甚至4年前越来越不受人尊重了。
OBAMA: And this is the greatest country on Earth. But because of some of the mistakes that have been made -- and I give Senator McCain great credit on the torture issue, for having identified that as something that undermines our long-term security -- because of those things, we, I think, are going to have a lot of work to do in the next administration to restore that sense that America is that shining beacon on a hill.
奥巴马：这是地球上最伟大的国家。却因为一些（布什政府）犯下的错误——在虐囚问题上，我非常相信麦凯恩议员，那已经被看作是破坏我们远期安全的东西事情——因为那些事情，我们，我认为，为了让美国恢复成那山上闪亮的灯塔，下一届政府得有许许多多的工作做。 LEHRER: Do you agree there's much to be done in a new administration to restore...
主持人：（对麦凯恩）你同意下一届政府要做许许多多的事情，以恢复……
MCCAIN: But in the case of missile defense, Senator Obama said it had to be, quote, "proven." That wasn't proven when Ronald Reagan said we would do SDI, which is missile defense. And it was major -- a major factor in bringing about the end of the Cold War.
麦凯恩：但在导弹防御的问题上，奥巴马议员说那必须得“证明”（我们会遭到导弹的袭击）。当罗纳德.里根说我们要实施战略防御计划时，那就是导弹防御，没有证明。而那是一个主要的——一个使得冷战结束的主要的因素。
（注：SDI, Strategic Defense Initiative）
We seem to come full circle again. Senator Obama still doesn't quite understand -- or doesn't get it -- that if we fail in Iraq, it encourages Al Qaida. They would establish a base in Iraq.
我们看起来又绕了回来。奥巴马议员还没有太明白——或者没有领会——那就是如果我们在伊拉克失败了，那将鼓舞基地组织（的士气）。他们会在伊拉克建立基地。
The consequences of defeat, which would result from his plan of withdrawal and according to date certain, regardless of conditions, according to our military leaders, according to every expert, would lead to defeat -- possible defeat, loss of all the fragile sacrifice that we've made of American blood and treasure, which grieves us all.
而失败的后果……这个失败将由他的撤退计划和不考虑条件的确定的日期所导致。我们的军队领导者们、每一个专家（都预测了撤退）会导致失败——可能的失败，那些让我们悲痛的美国人的鲜血和财富所做出来的脆弱的牺牲，将白白丢失。
All of that would be lost if we followed Senator Obama's plan to have specific dates with withdrawal, regardless of conditions on the ground.
如果我们采用了奥巴马的计划，即为撤退设定一个确切的日期，而不管战场上的情况，所有那些（牺牲）都会丢失。
And General Petraeus says we have had great success, but it's very fragile. And we can't do what Senator Obama wants to do.
彼得雷乌斯将军也说我们获得了巨大的成功，但那成功非常脆弱。我们不能照着奥巴马议员想做的那样做。
That is the central issue of our time. And I think Americans will judge very seriously as to whether that's the right path or the wrong path and who should be the next president of the United States.
那是现在的一个核心问题。我认为美国人得非常认真地考虑（从伊拉克撤退）是正确的做法还是错误的做法，还有就是谁应该是下一届美国总统。 LEHRER: You see the same connections that Senator McCain does?
主持人：（对奥巴马）你是否一样看到麦凯恩议员看到的联系？
OBAMA: Oh, there's no doubt. Look, over the last eight years, this administration, along with Senator McCain, have been solely focused on Iraq. That has been their priority. That has been where all our resources have gone.
奥巴马：噢，毫不怀疑。听着，在过去8年里，这届政府，和麦凯恩议员一起，把注意力完全放在伊拉克上。那一直是他们的重点。那一直是消耗我们资源的地方。
In the meantime, bin Laden is still out there. He is not captured. He is not killed. Al Qaida is resurgent.
而同时，本拉登还在那里。他没有被抓住，他没有被干掉。基地组织复活了。
In the meantime, we've got challenges, for example, with China, where we are borrowing billions of dollars. They now hold a trillion dollars' worth of our debt. And they are active in countries like -- in regions like Latin America, and Asia, and Africa. They are -- the conspicuousness of their presence is only matched by our absence, because we've been focused on Iraq.
同时，我们面临着（新的）挑战。例如，我们从中国借了数十亿的美元。他们现在拥有着价值上万亿我们的债务。而他们现在在一些国家非常活跃——例如像拉丁美洲这样的地区，亚洲，还有非洲。他们正在——由于我们的缺席，他们的存在变得非常显著，因为我们一直在关注伊拉克。
We have weakened our capacity to project power around the world because we have viewed everything through this single lens, not to mention, look at our economy. We are now spending $10 billion or more every month.
把我们的力量布置全球的能力减弱了，因为我们通过这个简单的透镜看一切东西。看看我们的经济，别提了。我们现在每个月还要花100亿或者更多。
And that means we can't provide health care to people who need it. We can't invest in science and technology, which will determine whether or not we are going to be competitive in the long term.
而那意味着我们不能给那些需要的人提供医疗保障。我们还无法再科学和技术上投资，而那将决定我们在长期是否具有竞争力。
There has never been a country on Earth that saw its economy decline and yet maintained its military superiority. So this is a national security issue.
地球上没有这样的一个国家，在看着其经济衰落时还要保持军力的优势。所以这是一个民族安全问题。
We haven't adequately funded veterans' care. I sit on the Veterans Affairs Committee, and we've got -- I meet veterans all across the country who are trying to figure out, "How can I get disability payments? I've got post-traumatic stress disorder, and yet I can't get treatment."
我们没有对老兵照顾投入足够的资金。我是照顾老兵事务委员会的一个成员，我们有——我会见了来自全国各地的老兵，他们想要知道：“我能得到残废救济金吗？我患了创伤后心理压力紧张症，但我却不能得到治疗。”
（注：post-traumatic stress disorder, 创伤后心理压力紧张症，指人在遭遇或对抗重大压力后，其心理状态产生失调之后遗症。这些经验包括生命遭到威胁、严重物理性伤害、身体或心灵上的胁迫。有时候被称之为创伤后压力反应（post-traumatic stress reaction）以强调这个现象乃经验创伤后所产生之合理结果，而非病患心理状态原本就有问题。主要症状包括恶梦、性格大变、情感分离、麻木感（情感上的禁欲或疏离感）、失眠、逃避会引发创伤回忆的事物、易怒、过度警觉、失忆和易受惊吓。）
So we have put all chips in, right there, and nobody is talking about losing this war. What we are talking about is recognizing that the next president has to have a broader strategic vision about all the challenges that we face.
所以我们得把钱花在这里，而没有人说要败掉这场战争。我们说的是要意识到下一任总统必须得在我们面临的所有挑战方面有更广阔的战略性眼光。
That's been missing over the last eight years. That sense is something that I want to restore.
而那在过去8年来被忽略了。那种判断力是我想要恢复的。 MCCAIN: I've been involved, as I mentioned to you before, in virtually every major national security challenge we've faced in the last 20-some years. There are some advantages to experience, and knowledge, and judgment.
麦凯恩：我涉入了——正如我之前向你们提到的——涉入了事实上过去20多年来我们面临的所有主要的民族安全挑战。我在经验、知识和判断上（相对于奥巴马）是有优势的。
And I -- and I honestly don't believe that Senator Obama has the knowledge or experience and has made the wrong judgments in a number of areas, including his initial reaction to Russian invasion -- aggression in Georgia, to his -- you know, we've seen this stubbornness before in this administration to cling to a belief that somehow the surge has not succeeded and failing to acknowledge that he was wrong about the surge is -- shows to me that we -- that -- that we need more flexibility in a president of the United States than that.
而且我——我实在地说，不认为奥巴马议员有这样的知识和经验。他在许多领域做出了错误的判断，包括他最初对俄罗斯侵略格鲁吉亚的反应，到他的……你们知道，他这种固执我们之前在这届政府见过，他咬死一个观点那就是（2006年的）增兵没有成功，而且未能承认他关于增兵（的判断）是错误，这是……这给我的迹象是我们……（停顿）我认为我们需要一个比他那样更灵活点的美国总统。
（注：奥巴马一开始对俄罗斯进攻格鲁吉亚的反应是呼吁双方都要克制，看来，有着20多年从军经验，然后又是20多年从政经验，曾多次面临死亡威胁的老麦，比奥巴马更清楚哪些人是敌人，哪些人是朋友。）
As far as our other issues that he brought up are concerned, I know the veterans. I know them well. And I know that they know that I'll take care of them. And I've been proud of their support and their recognition of my service to the veterans.
至于我们其他的他提出来的事务（我们）已经考虑过了，我了解老兵。我非常了解他们。（注：麦凯恩从军20多年，参加过越战，他自己就是一位老兵。）我相信他们知道我会照顾他们的。而且我一直为他们的支持而骄傲，为他们认可我对老兵的服务而骄傲。
And I love them. And I'll take care of them. And they know that I'll take care of them. And that's going to be my job. But, also, I have the ability, and the knowledge, and the background to make the right judgments, to keep this country safe and secure.
我热爱他们。我会照顾他们的。他们也清楚我会照顾他们。那将是我的工作。而且，我也有这个能力、知识还有背景来做正确的判断，来确保这个国家安全。
Reform, prosperity, and peace, these are major challenges to the United States of America. I don't think I need any on-the-job training. I'm ready to go at it right now.
改革、繁荣和和平，这是美国面临的主要挑战。我不认为我需要任何上岗培训。我现在就已经准备好了。 OBAMA: Well, let me just make a closing point. You know, my father came from Kenya. That's where I get my name.
奥巴马：呃，让我最后指出一点来。你们知道，我的父亲来自肯尼亚。那也是我名字的来源。
（注：肯尼亚：非洲中东部国家，临印度洋。19世纪后期和20世纪初由英国控制，1963年独立。内罗毕是其首都和最大城市。人口15,327,061）
And in the '60s, he wrote letter after letter to come to college here in the United States because the notion was that there was no other country on Earth where you could make it if you tried. The ideals and the values of the United States inspired the entire world.
在60年代，他写了一封又一封的信，想要来美国上大学。这个观点是，地球上没有另外一个这样的国家，即只要你尝试就有收获。美国的理想和价值观鼓舞着整个世界。
I don't think any of us can say that our standing in the world now, the way children around the world look at the United States, is the same.
我不认为我们中的任何一个可以说，我们现在在世界上的地位，全世界的孩子们看待美国的态度还是一样的。
And part of what we need to do, what the next president has to do -- and this is part of our judgment, this is part of how we're going to keep America safe -- is to -- to send a message to the world that we are going to invest in issues like education, we are going to invest in issues that -- that relate to how ordinary people are able to live out their dreams.
而我们需要做的一部分，也就是下任美国总统必须得做的——这是我的判断中的一部分，这是一部分让美国安全的方法——就是——给全世界发布这样的消息：我们将投资于类似教育这样的领域，我们将投资于那些——那些与让每一个普通人梦想成真相关的领域。
And that is something that I'm going to be committed to as president of the United States.
而那是当我成为美国总统时要尽心做的。
LEHRER: Few seconds. We're almost finished.
主持人：（对麦凯恩）几十秒。我们就要结束了。
MCCAIN: Jim, when I came home from prison, I saw our veterans being very badly treated, and it made me sad. And I embarked on an effort to resolve the POW-MIA issue, which we did in a bipartisan fashion, and then I worked on normalization of relations between our two countries so that our veterans could come all the way home.
麦凯恩：吉姆，当我从（越南）监狱回来时，我看到我们的退伍兵待遇很差，这让我很伤心。我从事于解救我们的战俘和失踪人员的努力，我们以两党合作的方式来实施，之后，我致力于我们两国（美国和越南）关系的正常化，这样我们的俘虏能从远道回来。
（注：麦凯恩曾在越战中被俘。他的手臂曾被枪打穿，并被越南人吊起来打。）
I guarantee you, as president of the United States, I know how to heal the wounds of war, I know how to deal with our adversaries, and I know how to deal with our friends.
我向你保证，作为美国总统，我知道怎样治疗战争的伤口，我知道如何对待我们的敌人，我也知道如何对待我们的朋友。
LEHRER: And that ends this debate tonight.
主持人：今晚的辩论到此结束。
On October 2nd, next Thursday, also at 9:00 p.m. Eastern time, the two vice presidential candidates will debate at Washington University in St. Louis. My PBS colleague, Gwen Ifill, will be the moderator.
十月2号，下周四，同样晚上9点，东部时间，两位副总统候选人将在圣路易斯华盛顿大学进行辩论。我在公共广播公司的同事，格温.伊菲尔，将是主持人。
For now, from Oxford, Mississippi, thank you, senators, both. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you, and good night.
现在，来自牛津，密西西比，谢谢你们两位。我是吉姆.拉勒尔。谢谢你们，晚安。
(APPLAUSE)
（鼓掌）
END
（2008美国总统竞选辩论 第一场 全文完）
Sep 26, 2008 22:57 ET
九月26号，2008，美国东部时间 22:57